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Consumer Reviews of Heat Transfer Products boilers

Popularity:
#32  of 52 brands of boilers

22% of customers recommend
2 of 5 stars 326 reviews

  • Very Satisfied
    60
  • Somewhat Satisfied
    13
  • Neutral
    93
  • Somewhat Unsatisfied
    9
  • Very Unsatisfied
    151

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Date created: 2011-01-29 Name: Geoff Marshall
Location: Little Deer Isle, ME

Satisfaction Rating:

3 of 5 stars Neutral

Review:
"A tale of two Munchkins"
I have two Munchkins. A 140 at home and a 199 at a summer rental property. Both units installed in spring/summer 2005. I travelled to the HTP factory in MA and took the Vision course in order to purchase these units and followed all the instructions to the letter. The 199, which uses a concentric vent, is running better than the 140 at my house which started out with two separate pipes through the wall. Four months ago I changed the 140 to use a concentric vent. The 140 at home has been a bear. Excessive trumpeting resulted in me buying a new gas valve and manometer and combustion analyser. Spent literally DAYS dialing the unit in and finally found some settings where the trumpeting was eliminated but could never get the high and low firing specs in order--close but no cigar. Then a couple of months later, the blower (#1), which always made a lot of noise at post purge disintegrated. The new blower had a metal, instead of plastic, fan, so obviously EBM (the blower manufacturer) saw there was a problem with the fan. Blower (#2) lasted approx 6 months. I managed to get warranty satisfaction through calls to HTP and FW Webb, my supplier and Emmerson, FW Webb's supplier. If you're counting, I'm on blower #3 and it is quiet and works well. I have also had to replace both the burner refractory and target refractory as they were cracked up and disintegrating. This unit has also had numerous F09, F10 and F11 lockouts. I take it apart and clean it twice a year. During a service while rinsing (yes I remove the target refractory when cleaning), I noticed that the water level at the front of the heat exchanger (HX) was higher than at the rear, so I put the level IN the burner chamber. The HX itself was racked with respect to the blow-molded case so I had to shim the Munchkin to achieve a level HX. I see there is now a 'Rev 2' installation manual for the Munchkin that says the unit should be tilted back toward the condensate drain. When I took the Vision 1 class, we were told level and put the level on the blow-molded case. How many installers actually take the unit apart and check the drainage? Then there is the outdoor reset. I noticed that the d5 status was showing an incorrect outdoor temperature. I replaced the outdoor sensor to no avail. Also the programmed outdoor reset curve doesn't seem to work as stated. I set my slope at 1.0 (from 110@35 to 165@-20) just to check its operation and at d5 reporting 32 degrees my calcutated setpoint should be 110 + 3 but Munchkin reported d11 status as 115. On the other hand, the 199 has worked quite well and been nice and quiet. Only on the second blower, It started locking out with F11's, but cleaning the rectifier seems to have solved the problem. IMHO a boiler should not lock out. I have had to buy a freeze alarm for the rental to alert me when the boiler is no longer working. At cleaning, both units have a fair amount of granular debris in the HX. My stepfather had a NTI Trinity installed, which is basically the guts of the Munchkin flipped over with the blower beneath the burner and a different computer. His HX is totally clean. We both use the same propane gas delivered from the same propane truck. In my area there is not a single installer or gas guy that has a combustion analyser which makes getting help from HTP tough because their first question is always, "What are your combustion levels?" I do not know ANYBODY here in Maine that can tell me their central heat boiler locked out the other day and all they had to do was hit the RESET button. So that's my story with almost no opinion thrown in. What would you buy for $3800? Why is the Trinity and Vitodens, which are almost identical units, so much more reliable?



Date created: 2011-01-27 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:

5 of 5 stars Very Satisfied

Review:
"Reputable Installer"
Tim H.-New Hampshire--Tim, do you mean to tell me that in 7 yrs. you replaced 4 boilers (units)? If that's true, the odds of that happening are astounding. It would be easier to win the Powerball Lottery. What this tells me is that you got an installation, system or gas reversion problem that has never been addressed. I'm assuming that you mean something else? If your last boiler was 3 1/2 yrs old, you more than likely have Honeywell gas valve and not a Dungs gas valve on it. Gas reversion will do a number on the electronics, wiring, blower and 3 1/2 years is about how long it takes for the damage to surface. Honeywell gas valves need a reducing disk installed when using propane gas. There is more going on here than meets the eye. Also everyone, when posting, PLEASE, state model #, gas type, FAULT CODES, and date of installation. Just don't rile against Munchkin, although you can do that too. Venting your feelings helps you , but doesn't help the reader understand what is going on. Give the readers more information about your experience so that the reader can render an informed judgment about your situation.


Date created: 2011-01-26 Name: Tim H.
Location: New Hampshire

Satisfaction Rating:

1 of 5 stars Very Unsatisfied

Review:
"I'm tearing it out this spring"
I have a Munchin 140, Like the vast majority of the other reviews this boiler has been a total disapointment since it was installed 7 or eight years ago. I am on the 4th unit now the first years with this piece of junk were filled with constant failures, new replacement units and I can't count the number of call backs. The 4th unit was installed about 3 1/2 years ago and was working okay until this past weekend when the gas valve failed. It was the coldest weather we've had in years 10 to 15 below zero. Parts are not readily availble, had to UPS them in. 4 days without heat. The design is terrible. You can't get to the condensate line to clean it because it's underneath the unit. The process they recommend to clear it is so involved that it boarders just plain stupid. The control panel was an obvious afterthough and is not integral to the cabinet. The control wiring connects to the board inside the the. It then has to be draped over the side of the unit to get it outside to where the control panel attaches to the side with velcro. Plenty of other design flaws but not enough room here to descibe them. Told my wife when the weather breaks this spring I'm replacing it with something more reliable, and I'm crossing my fingers that it will last till spring.


Date created: 2011-01-24 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:

5 of 5 stars Very Satisfied

Review:
"Reputable Installer"
Lydia Hulette--Sturgeon Lake, MN--CORRECTION There are 6 ways a pressure relief valve can discharge water. The two I missed was #5. Too large a boiler pump, way too much head (pressure). On start ups the pump creates so much pressure that it pops the pressure relief valve open. #6 I have to mention this because someone would probably bring it up and I hate being embarrassed. Drum role, PLEASE! When you lift the lever on the top of the pressure relief valve up. There I said it and I'm glad I did.


Date created: 2011-01-24 Name: Steve - BELTLINE HEATING

Satisfaction Rating:

3 of 5 stars Neutral

Review:
"Relief valve"
I will let you in on a little info ... Boilers seldom blow relief valves. It is usually the system that causes the valve to blow. Either too small of an expansion tank or a leaking pressure reducing valve. ( water is leaking into the system.) The boiler can cause the valve to blow if there isn't enough flow. .... Again I would not have had a hardware store install my high eff. boiler. I have never seen water running under a concrete floor do damage other than wash the dirt out from underneath. Take some pictures of your install and post the link to them here and I will give you some advise.


Date created: 2011-01-24 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:

5 of 5 stars Very Satisfied

Review:
"Reputable Installer"
Al Y--Palos Park, Illinois To all you D.I.Y.S.ers that procure your own boilers and install them yourself. KUDOs to you. Most people don't have any idea how a lite turns on when you flick a switch. Many installer won't install a boiler that the homeowner buys, I will if the application is proper. I'm not going to install a 399K boiler in a house that has 72K BTU/hr heat loss in the coldest day in winter. I don't make a profit on the boiler, but I will on the auxiliary stuff, and besides, I will know the job is done right. To all You D.I.Y.S.ers, here is something to consider. 1) How do you know what kind and size boiler your house needs? This is a BIG deal! It is call application and if not proper it is the start of Big Big problems.--Now the real deal--2)DID YOU DO A COMBUSTION ANALYSIS ON YOUR NEW BOILER as a part of commissioning. Why is this important you ask? "Well, Grasshopper". When the boiler comes from Heat Transfer Product, the company did a combustion analysis, I not sure they did, I never asked, but I believe they did. So why do you need to do it again? It is because a COMBUSTION ANALYSIS sets the gas valve to the most efficient air/fuel ratio and the air/fuel ratio is a variable. What Heat Transfer Product set, to get the boiler to fire, may not be the correct ratio for your installation. Let me explain. First the fuel. British Thermal Units (BTUs) are a measure of energy. Nat. gas has so many BTUs per cubic foot (heat value). In my area it is 1020 BTUs/cu ft. In some areas of the U.S. it can be as low as 800 BTUs/cu ft. Your gas supplier can tell you. So, the combustion ratio that HTP sets can be wrong for your area if your BTUs/cu ft is different. Secondly, the air. Air is denser at sea level than in Denver, CO. Elevation affects the combustion ratio (less oxygen). That is why furnaces and boilers are de-rated for altitude to maintain the air/fuel ratio. HTP's elevation may be different than yours affecting your boiler's efficiency. So get someone with a recently calibrated combustion analyzer and do a COMBUSTION ANALYSIS on your boiler and set the gas valve properly. See, it's complicated, Huh!


Date created: 2011-01-24 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:

5 of 5 stars Very Satisfied

Review:
"Reputable Installer"
Randy--Lakewood NY-- I've given some thought to your question. Heat Transfer Products recommends that the exhaust be 18" above the air intake as hot exhaust gasses rise. In my own installation, the exhaust exits out of the top of the B-vent that was for my old boiler. I ran the 3" PVC pipe up the center of the old B-vent to the top of the chase. My air intake is side wall vented. So, the venting (intake and exhaust) is 25' apart and on the same side of the house. I do not use or recommend concentric venting (roof or sidewall). Separation is your friend as long as the air pressure (blowing wind, etc) is about equal on both vents. There is resistance to flow with pipes. That is why you have vent length limitations on intake and exhaust venting. But, I would prefer less resistance on the intake and the same or more resistance on the exhaust. You don't want the gas valve starved for air. Ideally, combustion analysis (setting up combustion ratios-air to fuel) should be done with the case closed, but rarely is. Another thing, Short venting, less than 10', can create a situation where the Carbon Monoxide acidic exhaust gas can be pulled back into the combustion chamber and work its way up into the blower. The blower does a post purge for a number of seconds to clear the combustion chamber of exhaust gasses, but with short venting this may not be long enough. This time (the time that the green burner "on" lite on the control module goes out and the blower stops) can be increased which helps with this problem. A certified installer with the proper software can do this. Pretty complicated, Huh! Now, how would I as a homeowner check to see if my boiler was sucking in exhaust gasses (gas reversion)? I think that I would buy a Knight CO detector with a digital readout and alarm from Costco or Home Depot for $29 and plug it into a thin extension cord and place it in the boiler cabinet, close it up and monitor it for a while. Any read greater than 0 parts per million would give me concern. The higher the ppm the greater the concern. I have never tried it, but it is a cheap fix and would probably work. Good Luck.


Date created: 2011-01-24 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:

5 of 5 stars Very Satisfied

Review:
"Reputable Installer"
Lydia Hulette-- Sturgeon Lake, MN I read with fasination your posts. If your Munchkin isn't working properly, you have a right to be angry. However, that doesn't solve your problems. 1) "My old boiler used 90/gal of propane a month, now I use 200/gal/mo." Was the gas valve checked with a manometer for proper pressure? Was you Contender set up with a combustion analyzer? Did Troy spend a $1000 for one, and was it calibrated within the last 2 years? Is your Contender set up for propane and not nat gas. Propane has twice the BTUs (heating capacity) than nat gas. Running a nat gas boiler on propane will over heat the boiler and cause a ton of problems. (YOU MUST USE A COMBUSTION ANALYZER THAT IS RECENTLY CALIBRATED) 2) "the relief valve blew off and flooded under the foundation" The pressure relief valve is set to discharge boiler water at 30psi. Your boiler pressure should be 12-15 psi with cold water and goes up in temperature as the water heat up. It should be well under 30 psi. There are 4 things that can cause the pressure relief valve to discharge water. 1) a faulty pressure relief valve, 2) an increase in pressure due to over heating in the boiler, 3) street pressure 50 psi getting into the boiler(30 psi) (a faulty pressure regulating valve which is an ad-on). 4) a water logged expansion tank. Just look at the pressure gauge. It tells a story. Also, piping is a complicated issue as any Plumbing Engineer (a college degree) can tell you. Improper piping can cause issues that aren't easily discernible without training in plumbing engineering. I hope this helps. We got to fix those rolling eyes. Let us know what the solutions for your problems are.


Date created: 2011-01-23 Name: Steve - BELTLINE HEATING

Satisfaction Rating:

3 of 5 stars Neutral

Review:
"Lydia"
Lydia ---- the relief valve blowing and dumping water all over the place is probably NOT caused by the boiler and probably by a bad expansion tank or pressure reducing valve. .... If you drove down a bad raod and got a flat tire would you blame the car manufacturer. Good luck with your lawsuit.


Date created: 2011-01-22 Name: Lydia Hulette
Location: Sturgeon Lake, MN

Satisfaction Rating:

1 of 5 stars Very Unsatisfied

Review:
"@ Steve of Beltline"
Ummmmmm *rolls eyes* I called Heat transfer inc. and was referred to an "authorized repairman" He came to my home along with the original installer from Ace. He has no idea either what the exact problem is. According to his "computer" the unit is working properly. But since the relief valve blew off and flooded under the foundation of my garage causing extensive damage and now my house floor is cracked also.... Yeah you bet your azzzz There will be a law suit. Imagine how much its going to cost to replace my concrete in my garage and my home <~~ if thats even possible. So if this is normal for a munchkin contender, I stand by my original statement. DON'T BY A MUNCHKIN CONTENDER. You might loose you home because of it.

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