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Consumer Reviews of Heat Transfer Products boilers

Popularity:
#31  of 52 brands of boilers

22% of customers recommend
2 of 5 stars 326 reviews

  • Very Satisfied
    60
  • Somewhat Satisfied
    13
  • Neutral
    93
  • Somewhat Unsatisfied
    9
  • Very Unsatisfied
    151

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Date created: 2011-02-11 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:

3 of 5 stars Neutral

Review:
"The KISS Principle"
For the dear readers that are wondering what the KISS principle is--it's Keep It Simple, Stupid--so when it breaks down Stupid can fix it. But Adrian, where would we get the cars that get 46 miles to a gallon of gas? It is funny tho. A goal to strive for.---Geoff- Are these coffee grounds adhering to the HX (heat exchanger) or are they loose? Are they on the bottom of the HX or all around the HX? As far as conditioning the intake air with the concentric venting, I don't think that it will improve the situation as the exhaust gases don't have a lot of latent heat. As far as the condensate trap being the source of the acidic vapor getting into the blower, it may be, considering that HTP wants you to tilt the boiler toward the rear(for better drainage?). The amount of vapor getting into the blower from the condensate trap is dependent on the cross sectional area of the condensate exposed to the HX. A 1" cross sectional area will produce less vapor than a 2' cross sectional area. There might be a lot of wetness (drops etc.) on the inside of the shell of the HX which would increase the cross sectional area and the production of acidic vapor, I don't know. I do know that the colder the return water to the boiler the more condensate is produced. (Also, the more efficient the boiler is.) If you have looked at your flue on a cold day you will see the vapor condensing as it exits the flue. (steam, colloquially speaking) What I think, is that vapor in the flue cools (more dense) and falls back down the flue pushing the acidic vapor in the HX up the fuel plenum and into the blower where is condenses and does it's damage. This is why a shorter exhaust vent is more of a problem, the gases cool quicker. There is also back draft. A shorter exhaust vent is less resistant to back draft flows. I would still want to increase the post purge on the blower to push all the acidic combustion vapor out of the HX and flue vent replacing it with non acidic air. Air at 10 degrees has low humidity, certainly much less than exhaust gases in the HX. Replace that acidic air with fresh air, increase your post purge on your blower. Four blowers is a bit much and shouldn't be tolerated. Does anyone else have any ideas on this, speak up.



Date created: 2011-02-10 Name: Geoff Marshall
Location: Little Deer Isle, ME

Satisfaction Rating:

3 of 5 stars Neutral

Review:
"4th Blower!!!"
I looked through my records the other day and was surprised to find that I'm on my 4th blower with the 140M. The first blower was replaced because it was so noisy during the post purge. I bought the $200 Equiguard policy on the 140 which paid for one blower but they went bankrupt and it took almost a year for a check to show up. None of the blowers had much corrosion inside so I don't think they are the source of the coffee grounds. I thought about prolonging the post-purge but I think most of the moisture is from the hot water still in the condensate trap; no ideas come to mind for how to deal with this. My non-contact thermometer showed the Dungs gas valve to be 10F one day; which is why I switched to the concentric-- I was hoping the additional heating of the intake air would help and so far, it seems to be better. But if I bumped up the post purge I'd be back where I started. I used Permatex hi-temp and put the boiler back in service after about 1 hour.


Date created: 2011-02-09 Name: adrian davies
Location: Richmond Va

Satisfaction Rating:

1 of 5 stars Very Unsatisfied

Review:
"Hi Tek for the sake of it..."
I would like to add a comment to my not-very-favorable review of a couple of pages back. I have been reading Homer's posts, and clearly this is a guy who makes an effort to do the job properly. However, my comment is still valid regardless that the installer may be competent and conciencious (spelling??) The fact of the matter is that a guy should not have to be a NASA engineer to install a furnace and have it work properly. But even the design itself is flawed, and this is the reason. This boiler will shut off, and bring up a fault code indicating the problem, and this is the flaw, because if the homeowner is absent during a severe cold spell in winter and this heap of junk decides to quit working, well, need I say more?? The fact is that it should have been designed so that the unfortunate homeowner receives adequate warning that trouble is developing, before the boiler actually starts shutting off. A moron having a bad day should still be able to fathom that one out. After all, a "service engine soon" warning in your car does not mean that you come to a sudden stop in the middle of the expressway. What we have in the Munchkin is technology for the sake of technology. I am going to mention at this point that my business is industrial electronics. Cannot say who I am on here but if you google "printed circuit board repair" my company will come up pretty soon. Seeing the amount of electrical failure that I do see every day, I am a firm believer in the KISS principle, and I can certainly sniff out potential trouble when I see it. Whoever designed this crap was trying to show his boss how clever he is.....


Date created: 2011-02-07 Name: Dan Acevedo
Location: Elmwood Park,NJ

Satisfaction Rating:

5 of 5 stars Very Satisfied

Review:
"Good boiler"
Great boiler. Just needs to be set up properly. MUST perform a CO and CO2 adjustment and Pipe to Manufactures Specifications for proper operation.


Date created: 2011-02-05 Name: L Davis
Location: Hansville, Wa

Satisfaction Rating:

1 of 5 stars Very Unsatisfied

Review:
"Homeowner"
After the last 4 cold winters my very sporadic 2004 Munchkin boiler has finally been replaced by Munchkin with only a $410 install charge. We shall see....


Date created: 2011-02-04 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:

3 of 5 stars Neutral

Review:
"Why Things Need Fixing"
Geoff Marshall- Little Deer Isle, ME-- Geoff, you write,"The point is, and the 'Munchkin defenders' seem to be oblivious, why do I have problems to fix?". My first typewriter was an Underwood. I typed on it in college, all I ever had to do was change ribbons. Next was a Smith-Corona electric, worked good but I had to change the belt. Then and IBM Selectric, novel, but I had to have it serviced in a shop. Now I type on a computer, fantastic, but I am growing old fixing it. (I'm a real computer Whiz Bang ) Complexity grows, just look at your car. The rule is--repairs (fixes) are directly proportional to complexity of what you're trying to fix. Boilers are really complex compared to the old days, there is a lot of complexity in the installation and system design now,too; but you know that. You're a pretty intelligent guy. I can tell that by the way you write your posts. You have already solved your problem with your 140M, "All the metal in the cabinet is corroded, but NOT from reversion--after firing, hot, wet air from the burner chamber rises up the fuel plenum, through the blower out the swirl plate and condenses on the freezing metal parts". I suggested, "increase the post purge on the blower to 100 sec." and other suggestions. I know that anyone who has attended the Vision 1 course is knowledgeable (I attended it 3 times + a Vision 2 and Vision 3 course, too), but I write not only to you but to the readers, too. They think that Vision 1 is 20-20 eyesight, not you, dear reader, but the other jokers reading these reviews), so I try to explain things for them, which is why I elaborate on the fault codes. My views on concentric venting is born out of experience and common sense. HTP may not have told you "not to use concentric venting", but remember that for years people were told that the earth was flat. I do not know which way the wind is blowing around your house, day to day, season to season, updrafts-down drafts, on and on. I would rather not chance reversion, so, I like separation. So, Geoff, how do you know that you didn't have a combination of gas reversion and contamination from the HX on the 140M? Also, I like to say that I meant to write 1500 ohms not 150 ohms on the outdoor reset sensors.--Lastly, one need only Ixquick (Google) New York Thermal, Inc. (NTI) Trinity boilers to read about the problems with that manufacturer. As I have said all manufacturers have their share of problems. I wish we didn't, but then I wouldn't be writing these post for you fine readers


Date created: 2011-02-03 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:

5 of 5 stars Very Satisfied

Review:
"Reputable Installer"
Geoff Marshall- Little Deer Isle, ME--I can't help you with the coffee grounds, but I would like to know. Perhaps, flakes from the corroded aluminum inside the blower housing building up on the HX. I do know that HTP recommends tilting the unit toward the rear. My condensate flow goes through a clear vinyl tube to a neutralizer, so I can visually see the condensate as it leaves the boiler. I have a meter that test the PH and it is around 3.5, less than 7.0 is acidic. The code requirement is a 3/4" minimum drain pipe for the condensate piping. I have never had a problem with the condensate drain (plugging and backing up). What you say about the fuel plenum is the source of your problems, I bet. on Revision 2 the post purge is 100 sec. to clear the combustion chamber. (see my other posts) As you stated the blower is under the HX on the NTI Trinity and the fuel plenum acts as a thermal trap (hot gases rise), not so with the Munchkins and can be the source of the destructive exhaust getting into your blower and cabinet as you stated. You can check the post purge on the blower (see my earlier posts. The post purge can be changed by software to 100 sec. (revision 2 setting). Your post confirms my thoughts about this. I would certainly increase the post purge on the blower. In ME it gets mighty cold in the winter and you are pulling cold air into the cabinet, it seems to me that the boiler when it is running would condition the air to a more moderate temperature. I think that I would run your boiler with the cabinet cover partially open in the winter as long as the air in the boiler room is not contaminated with chlorine, phosphates or hydrocarbons. I never thought about Silicone, they do make a copper impregnated high temp (800 degrees) silicone. However you have to wait 24 hrs for silicone to cure (the only draw back?). The thermistors are probably manufactured with a 1-5% tolerance rating, so they can vary. I was thinking that maybe a 1/2 watt fixed resister of the correct ohm-age might correct that to the true outside temp. connected inline with the sensor wire. I might try that myself. However the thermistor is not linear. Right now, my D5 of the Status Menu on my 140M is 40 deg and my outdoor weather station is reporting 34 deg (same sunless side of the house). You can correct your central heating curve to take this into account, too. Since the sensor is mounted on the side of the house, it could be reading heat from the house through the wall whereas the station sensor is mounted on the eaves away from the wall, which may account for the discrepancy. I don't know it all, although my wife says that I am a big know it all. So, it's good that the readers provide their knowledgeable input (edukation is a good thing). SO, do a CO analysis and increase the post purge on the blower. Boy, I always harping on this CO analysis thing.


Date created: 2011-02-02 Name: Geoff Marshall
Location: Little Deer Isle, ME

Satisfaction Rating:

3 of 5 stars Neutral

Review:
"Thanks, Homer"
Thanks, Homer. It was just a review, didn't need advice (except about the 'coffee grounds'). I took the factory course. I know HOW to fix problems. The point is, and the 'Munchkin defenders' seem to be oblivious, why do I have problems to fix? The factory course wasn't tough and they didn't tell us not to use concentric vents (CV). And the 199 with the CV hasn't had the number of problems as the 149. All the fixes you give have been there from the start with the 149. Reversion: the in and out were widely separated with the exhaust sticking out about 18" further from the building; is is possible, but unlikely. Blowers: only the first blower had a disintegrating plastic fan (which appeared to have come apart at a glue joint); the others just 'died'. All the metal in the cabinet is corroded, but NOT from reversion--after firing, hot, wet air from the burner chamber rises up the fuel plenum, through the blower out the swirl plate and condenses on the freezing metal parts. HTP should have made this a sealed unit with a Honeywell valve like the Trinity. Condensate: I build a simple plywood support for the condensate drains out of the Munchkin so they don't kink. Gas piping: I request 1" or 1 1/4" from the meter and never step down until right at the unit. Pressure right on 13". Swirl plate comes with the Dungs valve. Burner tube gasket--use hi temp silicone--no more scorch marks on front refractory. We know what the error codes mean. You better start tilting your Munchkins toward the rear--read the new manual! Or open them up and put the level on the HX. The central heating curve problem is simply that sometimes it seems to calculate the wrong number in d11--not a big deal, but just another puzzler. My thermistors are like a few 1000 ohms away from where they should be, got a new one and put it in the freezer and checked against the chart in the Vision 1 manual. No good. I'm going to keep returning them until I get one that has correct resistance. Got ya with the 'coffee grounds' in the HX???


Date created: 2011-02-01 Name: John Romano
Location: Illinois

Satisfaction Rating:

1 of 5 stars Very Unsatisfied

Review:
"JUNK, don;t buy!!!"
Have had this piece of junk for 5 years. Every year there is some type of issue. Had the replace the blower unit because a plastic fan falling apart. The fan probably costs $5 but you have to buy the entire blower unit which is $700. The new unit has a metal fan. Now I am told that the computer board needs to be reprogrammed for the fan to run 90 seconds not 30. THe swirl plate is bad again. You will pay top dollar for this product and be a test bed for their enginering team. Don't count on getting any support from the company... they are just as bad as their product!


Date created: 2011-01-29 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:

5 of 5 stars Very Satisfied

Review:
"Reputable Installer"
Geoff Marshall-- Little Deer Isle, ME--First of all, let me state again my aversion to concentric venting. I don't do it or recommend it. Putting the exhaust and intake so close together is asking for trouble. The plastic impeller in the blowers don't handle partially burned acidic hydrocarbon very well. The new 140 and 199 blowers have stainless impellers and it is about time. Plastic fatigues when rotating at 3200 rpm and I am sure that the stresses and acidic CO accelerate the disintegration of the plastic impeller. So try my odd ball, First Alert, Knight CO detector in your cabinet, idea (see earlier posts)and see if there is reversion. When ever you remove a malfunctioning blower, always open it up and examine the inside. If the aluminum inside is black and scaly and the impeller is rough, pitted and coming apart. You have gas reversion problem. Moist acidic exhaust inside the cabinet is bad news for electronics as acid compounds conduct electricity which can't be good for the ICs (Integrated Circuits) inside. I WILL MENTION THIS NOW, FOR THE FIRST TIME. I always install a high efficiency boiler with a computer grade 4200+ joules surge protector. Everything is run off of it, even pumps. If lighting or surges are common in your area, a whole house surge protection system is essential.---Ok I don't know when the trumpeting started on the 140M or what trumpeting sound like to you. But this can happen if you have a Dungs gas valve on instead of the old Honeywell gas valve. The swirl plate that is between the gas valve and the blower is made of Nylon (now nylon and aluminum) and if the vanes disintegrate as they will because of CO and or dust and dirt in the intake air, it will cause a vibrating sound. The swirl plate should always be inspected when replacing a Dungs gas valve. The Dungs gas valve doesn't use the cork gasket which is on the new blower and it should be removed when installing the swirl plate to the blower. All three components need to be tightly connected as one unit. Look thru the sight glass as the boiler is running does the flame pulsate with the trumpeting? Yes?, Check the swirl plate and check the input pressure on the gas valve. The gauge should be within 1/2" of water/column. Static pressure for NG is 7" W/C and propane 12-14" W/C. You must have a full 3/4" gas pipe into the Munchkin as the valve draws a vacuum on the gas line. The gas pipe from the meter with all it's tees and branch lines must be calculated properly for flow.-- The refractories will crack, the target more so. They are fragile. I always have an extra set on hand during cleaning the combustion chamber. I only clean the combustion chamber when needed, not twice a year. And I always replace the burner tube gasket and tighten the 4 screws with a socket wrench nice and tight. (the cause of many F09 error codes)(see my earlier posts) F10 ERROR CODES--F10 is indicative of a flame failure while the Munchkin is running. FIRST-check that the condensate drain is clear and flowing freely. Condensate back-ups create steam which suffocates the flame, throws off rectification, soaks the refractory plates, causing the spark to ground out. SECOND-check the flame rod by depressing and holding the S4 button on the control module, the display should read D1. press and release the button till D7 appears. D7 reading should be as close to 4.1 micro amps as possible even tho it may be a little low at starting but go up to 4.0 when running. The reading is directly related to the CO output of the boiler. Tighten the 4 bolts on the burner tube. F11 ERROR CODES--Flame rod sees flame when there is no actual flame. Check wiring to the gas valve (clean and jacks & plugs with a computer grade electronic cleaner). This can happen when the boiler is short cycling and the combustion chamber is super heated. Check for a blocked flue. The exhaust vent should be pitched 1/4" per foot back to the boiler. Make sure your not venting too long a length. Always check your wiring harnesses. I have never had a problem with the condensate if the case is level. I always mount my Munchkins on a metal stand 18" off the floor with a platform that is level both ways. YES--there is some variation with the outdoor reset temperature reading. I've placed 4 (vision 1) thermistors side by side in cold weather and they have varied one from another by 150 ohms or so. I don't quite understand what you are trying to say a far as your "Central Heating Curve" goes. As far as granular debris in the combustion chamber, I don't know. Cleaning HX coils after 3 yrs, the deposits were what you would see on automobile spark plugs with a properly tuned engine, that is my experience. Nothing like you're are describing . Hope this helps. P.S. You need a Combustion Analyzer, folks.

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