Consumer Reviews of Heat Transfer Products boilers

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Date created: 2013-05-17 Name: Geoff Marshall
Location: Little Deer Isle, ME

Satisfaction Rating:

Review:
"Steve-Go Neutral"
Steve@ Beltline you need to adopt Homer's 'neutral' rating. Your 'very satisfied' postings are skewing the true satisfaction results regarding this product.

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Date created: 2013-01-27 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"That's Terrible"
K powell--Minnesota---I'm sorry to hear of your misfortunes. This is quite serious. You should contact the Minnesota consumer affairs department concerning what happened with pictures and a statement from your fire chief, building department and a local heating contractor. Also, let htp know that you are doing so. Often times, State Warranty Laws preempt manufacturer's warranties. Did you have a new home buyer insurance policy? I am inclined to doubt that it was an electrical problem considering what you described. I sense that it may have been a failure of the combustion chamber with hot gases escaping into the compartment. This might have been discovered with a yearly maintenance before the heating season. Also, use smoke detectors. Smoke detectors saves lives.

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Date created: 2013-01-25 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"Some Considerations"
John Berry--Haverhill MA---Yes, Hi Tech is complicated and does need regular attention, look at today's automobiles. Yes, it was an oversight on the part of htp concerning exhaust and intake issues, especially concentric venting. Experience is a wise and harsh teacher. Yes, natural gas varies across the country as to BTUs per cubic foot of gas and purity. This is why you need a combustion analysis done. The proper fix is not duct tape (duct tape is like The Force, it has a light side and a dark side and holds the universe together). The paper gasket has been replaced with a cork gasket with adhesive on one side that sticks to the blower intake. The Honeywell gas valve has a brass vent the dia of a pencil projecting out of the valve toward the rear of the cabinet. On the 80m this vent can touch the back of the cabinet and prevent proper venting to the gas valve (bad). Drill a 3/8" hole in the rear of the cabinet where the vent touches so as to allow air to the gas valve thru the vent's hole. The spark gap need to be 1/4" (see my earlier posts as to why this is so) Too small a gap will cause loud (explosive) ignitions or no ignition with a smell of gas. The Negative Pressure Switch tell the controller that the blower is running and pulling negative pressure (a safety feature). If stuck open you will never get ignition. The rubber diaphragm in the N.P. Switch ages and gets holes in it and leaks, keeping the micro switch in the open position. The hose connecting the Neg. Pressure switch to the blower must not be leaking either. The N.P. Switch has nothing to do with loud retorts. Loud retort is a delayed ignition commensurate with a gas build up in the combustion chamber that finally ignites. (see spark probe gap posts). As to Munchkin parts, Check the net. Parts can be procured cheaper (see KSCDirect.com for example. That's a wrap!

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Date created: 2013-01-25 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
""We had Paris""
J Brown--Menominee, MI---You may have multiple problems. "...round up the usual suspects" Back to basics: routine maintenance? Combustion chamber and condensate trap cleaning not greater than 3-4 years between. Natural gas pressure to valve 7" w/c (3/4" supply pipe and at least 10' from the meter? Combustion analysis on gas valve (co and 02)set correctly for low and high fire rates? F09 fault code causes---Burner tube not secured tightly to burner plate with the four screws (with a new gasket); Condensate line not draining (clean the combustion chamber)?; Gap on the spark ignitor is 1/4" and probes are clean and insulator not cracked; Rectification probe is clean and in the flame; Electrical plugs are connected tight and green ground wires are grounded and the polarity on the 110v wires are correct. new BLOWER---Make sure that the replacement blower is for a 140m; There is a cork gasket on the new blower's intake (positioned correctly?)(Honeywell gas valves use the cork gasket) Make sure that the hole on the brass vent on the rear of the Honeywell gas valve is open to the atmosphere; There is a new clear rubber gasket between the blower output and the blower to burner passage that came with the blower, use it. Check to make sure no plastic blower impeller parts lodged in the passage. multiple starts, no COMBUSTION--- If the spark probe is sparking (with the correct gap and good ground); It is a air/fuel (gas valve) problem, a moisture in combustion chamber problem, a blower problem ( with the 925 controller, press the s2 & s3 button for 1 sec- ser should show on the display-press the s1 or s2 button to decrease or increase the blower speed, the display should read the rpm of the blower, display=269low--380hi--press s1 & s2 to exit. If it works blower is okay loud combustion rumble & erratic rectifier CURRENT--- most likely an air/fuel problem which is tied to an f09. The rectifier current, with a good ground (burner tube and boiler), clean probes should be 4.1 micro amps when running. It can start at 2.5 to 4 micro amps on start up and quickly go to 4.1 ua (this is what rock solid is)., Erratic rectification is an air/fuel or grounding issue. a multimeter must be capable of reading 1 to 10 micro amps. That said, My humble advice is to clean the probes, install a new burner tube gasket and tighten the four screws very tightly, and get a combustion analysis with a recently calibrated combustion analyzer. burner TUBE---Remove the gas valve, blower, and burner plate as one single unit. Check the refractories for damage. Remove the 4 screws holding the burner tube to the burner plate. Remove the burner plate refractory (fragile) very carefully from the burner plate. Clean the old burner tube gasket from the burner tube and burner plate. Reverse the process using a new gasket. Report back. 10 years, see a Munchkin is a good boiler!

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Date created: 2013-01-25 Name: Hickory Tate
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"Munchkins with exhaust in the combustion"
I have worked on a dozen or so Munchkins and learn something new almost every time. The biggest problem I've seen was a deteriorated fan. I am thinking that this might help Diane in Cheyanne. The problem was corrosive air in the intake process. It took out the swirl plate and must have been an issue for a while before finally, the blower stopped working. It looked like it had caught on fire. I got all the replacement parts, then found out from htp that this unit fell within a brief window of manufacturing dates that had a recall due to a vent leak in the exhaust. At the same time, it may have been recirculating combustion air through the intake. a tip off to this problem that I noticed was the presence of mineral speckles on the metal parts within the machine, brass and aluminum/zinc alike. In that case, the unit was replaced with the current model, the Contender.

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Date created: 2013-01-21 Name: J Brown
Location: Menominee, MI

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"Sweet machine, until .... ten years later"
*Homer in Nevada, I request your opinion* I have read most all related comments of this website, and a few of my issues are comparable. A Munchkin 140M was installed and commissioned Feb 2003 (yes, 10 years ago; it is one of the first models). Until recently, only one very minor issue since install; unit would trip due to the infamous 'no-flame' indication. This complete shut-down occurred only about five times throughout the past 10 years. However, about 30% of ignition starts required more than one attempt. About five weeks ago, the plastic impeller failed (blower motor). Receipt of a new motor assembly, I was surprised to see the metal impeller (aluminum instead of plastic), but simply attributed the change an improved design. I understand the issues involving exhaust-reversion, and feel this concept is far from my list of troubles. After the new blower install, many different issues have started. The occasional rumbling, loud combustion vibration during ignition. Never before has this unit experienced this problem. Another complete meticulous cleaning, inspection, and reassembly of the firebox seems to have resolved this issue. (Intake and exhaust lines are clear). The occasional 'French-horn whistle' during periods of low idle, but only at one specific modulation speed. Again, never before, this unit experienced. Fortunately, the problem frequency is not maintained for more than a few seconds during any particular time period. A separate post suggests incorrect alignment of the gas valve venturi against the blower housing could be the cause. This has been checked, and problem remains. Most puzzling, and most likely directly related to the previous issue (of 10-year history): Erratic rectifier current causes frequent unit shut-down due to 'no-flame' indication. A few weeks of trouble-shooting led to the idea of monitoring the rectifier current (via multimeter). At no time (observed) has the ignition actually failed. Each (observed) start attempt, unit pre-purges and ignites normally; however, only seconds later, the control relay closes the gas valve, causing a restart attempt. Four attempts, the unit trips (as it should). During the past few weeks, the rectifier current has been closely monitored, and found to be very inconsistent, often averaging less than 0.7 microamps, leading to the four-attempt shut-down. However, occasionally, it is rock solid between 1 and 5 microamps, respective to flame size, and the unit operates normally (until the low-idle French-horn entertainment begins). Often cleaned, the rectifier probe is only a symptom, and not the problem; however, an occasional swap between the original and a new probe can provide for a solid ignition and operation cycle. Often, the old probe provides smoother operation than the new probe. One of the posts identify the need to change the burner can gasket (4-screws), and also indicates that an unsecure 'burner-assembly' could interfere with the rectifier current. My question: What is the need to remove the burner-assy from the faceplate? All the years of this unit operating normally, the burner-assy has never been disassembled from the faceplate, but has been cleaned and inspected. This unit has been a very sweet machine for a long time, but this 'blower-motor induced bug' has caused it to be very unreliable at a time of most need. I have sent a 'help-request' to HTP (Heat Transfer Products)... but, no reply. Suggestions are most welcome and appreciated.

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Date created: 2013-01-08 Name: John Berry
Location: Haverhill MA

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"Hi tech shouldn't mean needs frequent attention"
I have had my Munchkin 80m for 12 years. I am fortunate that when I installed it, the exhaust is 18” from the intake and downwind. The instructions didn’t warn about sucking in some exhaust could shorten the life of your system! It seems more a concern to minimize pressure differential. I was fortunate in that respect, and having opened the burner chamber up for the first time, it didn’t appear to even need cleaning! Maybe I have particularly clean Natural gas! The 2 of the 3 problems I have had, haven’t been mentioned here: 1. The Honeywell gas valve connector is quite loose fitting and would become disconnected. I ran a piece of duct tape around the valve to secure it and had no further problems.2. No flame lockout. I tried reducing the spark gap, which changed it from intermittent to constant, so I increased it and didn’t see the problem again. Could be related to #33. The system would lockout with “air pressure switch stuck open” and it was reported that the unit produced loud retorts. The problem became more frequent, but the air diaphragm switch measured fine. I replaced it since it is easy ($82!!!) No improvement. The boiler would run until the return warmed up and the blower throttled back, then lockout with that error. If the controller is bad, the upgrade is $730!!!!! Lots of profit to spread around on that one! As this forum made it seem commonplace to disassemble the valve / blower / assembly until, I dug in. From hints here, I realized to take the whole thing out as a unit and that the 4 screws connecting the gas valve to the gas pipe are meant to be disconnected for this. Piece of cake! The fan blade (plastic) looks good, there is no swirl plate, but 2 paper caskets between the blower, adapter block and adapter block to channel are blown open at the narrow edge. I used hi temp silicone sealant (red) in place of the gaskets. Without the paper (and maybe with it!) the screws bottom before the blower is snug. You need washers or shorter screws. Quick clean and rinse, reassemble, runs fine. I’m concerned that I still may find that the Honeywell regulator isn’t always shutting off properly, because I can’t explain why the unit would fire off with a bang.I Called the tech line 1/4/2013 but the only suggestion was to see if the fault changes if the air switch input is shorted. I know troubleshooting is step by step, but they should have a good flow chart of all the possible problems. Another clue I gave was “I smell some gas when the unit locks out”. I’m sure that was because the mixture leaking out the gasket breaks was no longer being recirculated, so it drifted to my nose!

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Date created: 2012-12-26 Name: mike gaspar
Location: Oakland, Ca.

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"Munchkin are under sizing the gas line and venting"
Most issues around the Munchkin are under sizing the gas line and venting. Make sure that the venting line has been glued properly (this will destroy swirl plates as not gluing properly will allow gases to go back into the unit). Sidewall or roof venting is fine as long as there is nothing blocking the venting (so gases do not get sucked back into the venting).

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Date created: 2012-10-31 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"Blower Racket"
J. C. Pernicka--Bellvue, Colorado---Yes, I can tell you from 40 years of experience: Installation is a big deal, especially with the new high efficiency boilers. If you have a Dungs gas valve look at the swirl plate and make sure it is not disintegrating, especially since you have replaced blowers before. It is a plastic plate between the gas valve and the blower that swirls the air and gas. If you have a Honeywell gas valve, make sure that you didn't suck something into the blower. Something may be unbalancing the impeller or the bearings maybe going. Lastly, you need to have a combustion analysis on the boiler. You may mistakenly believe that the blower is making the noise when it is "flashing" in the heat exchanger caused by the boiler pump not moving water through the hx fast enough. If so, clean the pump and or replace the cartridge. Munchkin is a good boiler and trouble free if installed correctly and maintained. (You do maintain the boiler and clean the combustion chamber?)--read the posts--

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Date created: 2012-10-09 Name: Showerless JOE
Location: Amherst, MA

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"Banging in Boiler"
Finally! - Some people who know these systems....I Bought an 80m in 2007, and have pretty good luck with it so far. I have a 2 zone system with dhw heating as well. Recently, the system has started banging shortly after the dhw cycle starts. My plumber said that the water is "flashing" in the boiler. The temperature shoots up very quickly and the burner modulates down and will eventlally shut off. Now, I'm not a hvac tech, but it seems that this would happen because the boiler is not getting enough water flow. Sure enough, I read on one post about how a bad pump could cause this. My question was I was wondering if anything else would cause it. Are there any tests that will narrow down the problem - thanks!!!

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