Consumer Reviews of Heat Transfer Products boilers

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Date created: 2011-02-21 Name: David
Location: Salem, Va

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"dont buy it"
I bought a munchkin high efficiciiency boiler with the "925" controller 8 years ago. Every year it's been service call after service call. Not to mention having to reset the the unit over and over again when I came home with no heat. Now they tell me the heat exchanger has a crack in it. This was the worste home improvement that I have ever done. Don't buy it.

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Date created: 2011-02-12 Name: Steve - BELTLINE HEATING

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"Adrian"
Adrian - I will let you in on a little secret. The Munchkin boiler does let you know there is a problem - They are called error codes. But you have to be there when it happens to see them displayed. Last time I checked You always have to be in your car when the check engine light comes on to see it. If you were somewhere else while your car was driving itself - You wouldn't get a warning either. AGAIN - if you are loosing motors or electronics your boiler is not installed properly. Steve - Beltline Heating

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Date created: 2011-02-11 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"Cracking the Boiler Case"
I mentioned in an earlier post about partially opening the boiler case to condition the boiler intake air. I do want to state that by doing so, you defeat Category 4 venting requirements. IT IS IMPERATIVE that if you operate a Munchkin without the cover or with the cover partially open that you have a FirstAlert CO detector in the same room as the boiler. Please see, the Minnesota account of a NTI Trinity boiler that was improperly piped on the air intake, which lead to a death from CO poisoning. Exhaust gases from the boiler were coming back into the air intake vent. However, the air intake vent didn't connect to the boiler. The incoming air only went into the boiler room and the boiler pulled it combustion air from the boiler room rather than from outside. The boiler room filled with CO because of exhaust gas reversion. A tragic story. It is probably a good idea to have a C0 detector in the boiler room, anyway. CO detectors are cheap and save lives. A CO detector has a useful live of about 5 yrs. and then need replacing.

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Date created: 2011-02-11 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"The KISS Principle"
For the dear readers that are wondering what the KISS principle is--it's Keep It Simple, Stupid--so when it breaks down Stupid can fix it. But Adrian, where would we get the cars that get 46 miles to a gallon of gas? It is funny tho. A goal to strive for.---Geoff- Are these coffee grounds adhering to the HX (heat exchanger) or are they loose? Are they on the bottom of the HX or all around the HX? As far as conditioning the intake air with the concentric venting, I don't think that it will improve the situation as the exhaust gases don't have a lot of latent heat. As far as the condensate trap being the source of the acidic vapor getting into the blower, it may be, considering that HTP wants you to tilt the boiler toward the rear(for better drainage?). The amount of vapor getting into the blower from the condensate trap is dependent on the cross sectional area of the condensate exposed to the HX. A 1" cross sectional area will produce less vapor than a 2' cross sectional area. There might be a lot of wetness (drops etc.) on the inside of the shell of the HX which would increase the cross sectional area and the production of acidic vapor, I don't know. I do know that the colder the return water to the boiler the more condensate is produced. (Also, the more efficient the boiler is.) If you have looked at your flue on a cold day you will see the vapor condensing as it exits the flue. (steam, colloquially speaking) What I think, is that vapor in the flue cools (more dense) and falls back down the flue pushing the acidic vapor in the HX up the fuel plenum and into the blower where is condenses and does it's damage. This is why a shorter exhaust vent is more of a problem, the gases cool quicker. There is also back draft. A shorter exhaust vent is less resistant to back draft flows. I would still want to increase the post purge on the blower to push all the acidic combustion vapor out of the HX and flue vent replacing it with non acidic air. Air at 10 degrees has low humidity, certainly much less than exhaust gases in the HX. Replace that acidic air with fresh air, increase your post purge on your blower. Four blowers is a bit much and shouldn't be tolerated. Does anyone else have any ideas on this, speak up.

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Date created: 2011-02-10 Name: Geoff Marshall
Location: Little Deer Isle, ME

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"4th Blower!!!"
I looked through my records the other day and was surprised to find that I'm on my 4th blower with the 140M. The first blower was replaced because it was so noisy during the post purge. I bought the $200 Equiguard policy on the 140 which paid for one blower but they went bankrupt and it took almost a year for a check to show up. None of the blowers had much corrosion inside so I don't think they are the source of the coffee grounds. I thought about prolonging the post-purge but I think most of the moisture is from the hot water still in the condensate trap; no ideas come to mind for how to deal with this. My non-contact thermometer showed the Dungs gas valve to be 10F one day; which is why I switched to the concentric-- I was hoping the additional heating of the intake air would help and so far, it seems to be better. But if I bumped up the post purge I'd be back where I started. I used Permatex hi-temp and put the boiler back in service after about 1 hour.

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Date created: 2011-02-09 Name: adrian davies
Location: Richmond Va

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"Hi Tek for the sake of it..."
I would like to add a comment to my not-very-favorable review of a couple of pages back. I have been reading Homer's posts, and clearly this is a guy who makes an effort to do the job properly. However, my comment is still valid regardless that the installer may be competent and conciencious (spelling??) The fact of the matter is that a guy should not have to be a NASA engineer to install a furnace and have it work properly. But even the design itself is flawed, and this is the reason. This boiler will shut off, and bring up a fault code indicating the problem, and this is the flaw, because if the homeowner is absent during a severe cold spell in winter and this heap of junk decides to quit working, well, need I say more?? The fact is that it should have been designed so that the unfortunate homeowner receives adequate warning that trouble is developing, before the boiler actually starts shutting off. A moron having a bad day should still be able to fathom that one out. After all, a "service engine soon" warning in your car does not mean that you come to a sudden stop in the middle of the expressway. What we have in the Munchkin is technology for the sake of technology. I am going to mention at this point that my business is industrial electronics. Cannot say who I am on here but if you google "printed circuit board repair" my company will come up pretty soon. Seeing the amount of electrical failure that I do see every day, I am a firm believer in the KISS principle, and I can certainly sniff out potential trouble when I see it. Whoever designed this crap was trying to show his boss how clever he is.....

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Date created: 2011-02-07 Name: Dan Acevedo
Location: Elmwood Park,NJ

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"Good boiler"
Great boiler. Just needs to be set up properly. MUST perform a CO and CO2 adjustment and Pipe to Manufactures Specifications for proper operation.

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Date created: 2011-02-05 Name: L Davis
Location: Hansville, Wa

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"Homeowner"
After the last 4 cold winters my very sporadic 2004 Munchkin boiler has finally been replaced by Munchkin with only a $410 install charge. We shall see....

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Date created: 2011-02-04 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"Why Things Need Fixing"
Geoff Marshall- Little Deer Isle, ME-- Geoff, you write,"The point is, and the 'Munchkin defenders' seem to be oblivious, why do I have problems to fix?". My first typewriter was an Underwood. I typed on it in college, all I ever had to do was change ribbons. Next was a Smith-Corona electric, worked good but I had to change the belt. Then and IBM Selectric, novel, but I had to have it serviced in a shop. Now I type on a computer, fantastic, but I am growing old fixing it. (I'm a real computer Whiz Bang ) Complexity grows, just look at your car. The rule is--repairs (fixes) are directly proportional to complexity of what you're trying to fix. Boilers are really complex compared to the old days, there is a lot of complexity in the installation and system design now,too; but you know that. You're a pretty intelligent guy. I can tell that by the way you write your posts. You have already solved your problem with your 140M, "All the metal in the cabinet is corroded, but NOT from reversion--after firing, hot, wet air from the burner chamber rises up the fuel plenum, through the blower out the swirl plate and condenses on the freezing metal parts". I suggested, "increase the post purge on the blower to 100 sec." and other suggestions. I know that anyone who has attended the Vision 1 course is knowledgeable (I attended it 3 times + a Vision 2 and Vision 3 course, too), but I write not only to you but to the readers, too. They think that Vision 1 is 20-20 eyesight, not you, dear reader, but the other jokers reading these reviews), so I try to explain things for them, which is why I elaborate on the fault codes. My views on concentric venting is born out of experience and common sense. HTP may not have told you "not to use concentric venting", but remember that for years people were told that the earth was flat. I do not know which way the wind is blowing around your house, day to day, season to season, updrafts-down drafts, on and on. I would rather not chance reversion, so, I like separation. So, Geoff, how do you know that you didn't have a combination of gas reversion and contamination from the HX on the 140M? Also, I like to say that I meant to write 1500 ohms not 150 ohms on the outdoor reset sensors.--Lastly, one need only Ixquick (Google) New York Thermal, Inc. (NTI) Trinity boilers to read about the problems with that manufacturer. As I have said all manufacturers have their share of problems. I wish we didn't, but then I wouldn't be writing these post for you fine readers

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Date created: 2011-02-03 Name: Homer
Location: Nevada

Satisfaction Rating:
Review:
"Reputable Installer"
Geoff Marshall- Little Deer Isle, ME--I can't help you with the coffee grounds, but I would like to know. Perhaps, flakes from the corroded aluminum inside the blower housing building up on the HX. I do know that HTP recommends tilting the unit toward the rear. My condensate flow goes through a clear vinyl tube to a neutralizer, so I can visually see the condensate as it leaves the boiler. I have a meter that test the PH and it is around 3.5, less than 7.0 is acidic. The code requirement is a 3/4" minimum drain pipe for the condensate piping. I have never had a problem with the condensate drain (plugging and backing up). What you say about the fuel plenum is the source of your problems, I bet. on Revision 2 the post purge is 100 sec. to clear the combustion chamber. (see my other posts) As you stated the blower is under the HX on the NTI Trinity and the fuel plenum acts as a thermal trap (hot gases rise), not so with the Munchkins and can be the source of the destructive exhaust getting into your blower and cabinet as you stated. You can check the post purge on the blower (see my earlier posts. The post purge can be changed by software to 100 sec. (revision 2 setting). Your post confirms my thoughts about this. I would certainly increase the post purge on the blower. In ME it gets mighty cold in the winter and you are pulling cold air into the cabinet, it seems to me that the boiler when it is running would condition the air to a more moderate temperature. I think that I would run your boiler with the cabinet cover partially open in the winter as long as the air in the boiler room is not contaminated with chlorine, phosphates or hydrocarbons. I never thought about Silicone, they do make a copper impregnated high temp (800 degrees) silicone. However you have to wait 24 hrs for silicone to cure (the only draw back?). The thermistors are probably manufactured with a 1-5% tolerance rating, so they can vary. I was thinking that maybe a 1/2 watt fixed resister of the correct ohm-age might correct that to the true outside temp. connected inline with the sensor wire. I might try that myself. However the thermistor is not linear. Right now, my D5 of the Status Menu on my 140M is 40 deg and my outdoor weather station is reporting 34 deg (same sunless side of the house). You can correct your central heating curve to take this into account, too. Since the sensor is mounted on the side of the house, it could be reading heat from the house through the wall whereas the station sensor is mounted on the eaves away from the wall, which may account for the discrepancy. I don't know it all, although my wife says that I am a big know it all. So, it's good that the readers provide their knowledgeable input (edukation is a good thing). SO, do a CO analysis and increase the post purge on the blower. Boy, I always harping on this CO analysis thing.

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